Our Nashes by William Vance Nash…..not “Our Nashes” at all!
DNA proving perpetual lies and misconceptions to be spread among descendants and genealogical circles.
AN example of genealogical white-washing, researchers of the Thomas Nash b. 1753-64 Chowan N.C.
Concerning the book titled “Our Nashes” and author, William V. Nash.
This is long, so hang with me okay? It’s worth it to get to the truth!
If you are a serious family historian, or just a novelty interest level only, it’s important to get true facts and evidences concerning your families, their heritage and their ethnic and cultural backgrounds. Say for instance, I know an ancestor that I am researching was from Ireland, from various records and census schedules, yet because I did not like an Irish ancestry I continually searched in the Italian records for my Irish ancestor? How ridiculous and or frustrating would your journey of familial discovery be? This is what is happening with the Nash as well as other mixed-blood/ethnic peoples of early American History. We just continue to “fit” them into the nice, tidy white families, immigrants from Norther Europe, and such just isn’t the case with many of these families.
What if, you, sitting at your computer one day “pressed that little green leaf” (ancestry.com advertisement to “connect” with your ancestors) and discovered your family line all the way back to an ancient King or Queen? How fascinating that might be? However, if you believed that connection, honored those ties within your family, and promoted that genealogy among descendants (posting such family trees to the internet, copy print and such genealogical circles as ancestry.com) and family members, and registered yourself in that family genealogy. Only to find out later on that in fact you do not belong to that family nor did you share in any of their heritage? How disappointing and frustrating for yourself and your families and your descendants? When you discovered the truth and with modern abilities prove beyond a shadow of doubt. Would you continue to perpetuate a lie for the sake of saving “face”? I would not, so here is the story behind my disappointment and further frustrations with such lies and out right bogus perpetuation and conspiracy white-washing, in order to cover up a great family heritage.
For some years now, I have known that the book written by Wm. V. Nash titled, Our Nashes and published 2 weeks after his passing, was in fact bogus information and genealogy! And as well you will see, purposefully misrepresented! I hope to present the truth. Though I have never read the book. I was in the past present when the bases of the books genealogy was presented to a large group of descendants in 2005, Natchitoches, La.. Some lapped it up, and some hailed it impossible citing the DNA findings! Though the author himself knew, and as well many of the Nash descendants knew that in fact there was a high probability that this could not be “Our Nash Family.” For the following reasons:
Firstly, for a Haplo assignment of (original assigned haplo was E3a which was changed to EV-38) EV-38 haplo, then an SNP of the haplo extended the findings to and EP-1 assignment (Thomas Nash line was assigned EP-1 and the WM Nash line received an SNP of EP-2) attaching such to have the families origins in England (Wales to be specific was the claim in the following link). Claiming that this haplo was most common among white European Boarder Reivers. After long and exhaustive research for some years, attempting to pull the Boarder Reivers history together with our own, I had no luck. The Nash/Ash/e surname was not a known surname among the Boarder Reiver Peoples. Though we do see this Haplo among those people who were remnant ascendance from the Roman Soldiers sent to build Hadrian’s Wall, many of whom were later known as rabble rousing thieves inventing the practice of “kidnapping” and holding families “ransom”, all annoyances to the Monarch of England. Later, many, if not all Boarder Reiver men were removed as convicts and arrived to these shores as Welsh Indentured Servants to the Colonies. Many Welsh settlements sprang organized in the backwoods and Indian country fringes, mixing heavily with the Native Americans, as well. (For further Reading on Hadian’s Wall) Among those Roman soldiers was known African men who later mixed among the local indigenous families along the Scottish Northumberland boarders with England. However no Nash/Ashe’s are listed in the DNA surname project, Elliott being the most common and notorious of Reiver surnames families. The Boarder Reiver yDNA study can be located here https://www.familytreedna.com/public/border_reiver_dna/default.aspx?section=ycolorized and no known or documented connections to our male yDNA exists in the that DNA study database, to date. That in and of it’s self was proof this could not have been the case either. **Please also see the haplo assignment changes explained below.
Some of the descendants went to great lengths to “hide” the true DNA reporting and haplo assignment, and published the book and the bogus genealogy regardless. A direct quote from the publishers later in response to my question of “Why would you publish this book knowing full well it was in fact not possibly true? Their response…”We waited to publish the book, after the authors death so that you (me specifically Stacy R. Stringer Webb, at least 4x’s descendant) could not argue with him”. Well, that says a lot about the intentions of and the perpetual spreading of lies, and further muddying the waters for genealogical research. Since the DNA is confirmed that “Our Nashes” did not, and could not have descended from Col Thomas Nash or likely, any other “English” (specifically Wales) Northern European family. And might I add, Royal Nash line of Europe….poppy cock! I say! I will give you some inside info below into the admixtures of this family, it’s very interesting! More interesting than a lie anyways. Along with many of the progenitor forefathers of the People Known as Redbones, we have a unique and distinct from most American families DNA signatures for admixture!
I recently visited ancestry.com and sadly, 90% of the genealogy for the Redbone progenitor Thomas and Wm Nash families of Chowan Co., NC. to Louisiana and East TX. from Tennessee, is following this same bogus line of genealogy presented in the white washed book “Our Nashes“. People have been mislead and genealogical efforts have come to another stalemate when in fact your presented with bogus and misrepresented facts. Here is an example on the net which is spreading more lies and misconceptions. I have made comments here so that others visiting may know, this is just not true. Please also comment when you see this misconception being spread through the genealogical world. If we do not attempt to correct the records, then the lies and white washing of our families will continue. This is simply not helpful at all when in fact you are trying to get to the truth of the history and heritage of this, or any family lineage. There is more drama to this story, which I have not presented as I find all that unhelpful at this point. Though I realize the lengths in-which some folks will go to to hide an inconvenient truth and undesirable heritage!
Here is the string of yDNA sampled from the Thomas Nash and Wm Nash of La. and East TX., origins is NC. (BTW the WM Nash and Thomas Nash lines had one genetic marker distance, which is basically not a match though they shared the same haplo assignment of origin and are very closely related, they were probably not biological brothers or father son). Two of the participants pulled their genealogical data assigned to this test 3-4 yrs after it had been published. For various reasons besides publishing this book. This family attempted to conceal their haplo assignment of African origins, and went to great lengths to have their samples removed permanently but with no luck. However, they pulled the genealogy attached, making them somewhat of an “anonymous” sample. Luckily, a brave descendant and a close cousin left his results as they were assigned. Therefore we have them to identify who was who. I am attaching the lines here but leaving a link so you can check out the results for yourself.
Thomas and William Nash samples:
59288 England E-M2 13 21 16 10 14-17 11 13 11 14 11 31 17 9-9 11 11 25 14 21 36 13-13-15-17 11 10 19-21 14 12 18 15 37-37 12 11 10 8 16-18 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 20-20 16 11 12 13 12 7 12 26 23 17 12 12 12 9 11 11 12
41245 Unknown Origin E-M2 13 21 16 10 14-17 11 13 11 14 11 32
34304 Thomas Nash, b 1764, NC, d bef 1860 in LA Unknown Origin E-P1 13 21 16 10 14-17 11 13 11 14 11 32
Now here is the results for the English (Wales) Nash family descendants of Col Thomas Nash through John Nash. Which proves there was no relationship, what so ever.
181849 Unknown Origin R-L2 12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9-10 11 11 25 14 19 30 15-15-15-17 11 11 19-23 16 15 17 17 36-39 12 12
367814 John Nash b. 1707 and d. 1776 Wales R-M269 12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9-10 11 11 25 14 19 30 15-15-15-17 11 11 19-23 16 15 17 17 36-39 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 21 20 13 12 11 13 10 11 12 11
83176 Wales R-M269 12 25 14 11 11-12 12 12 13 13 13 29
Ethnic Assignment, U.S. Census Records
Most records indicate for Thomas b. 1753-64 Chowan Co., NC. d. bef 1860 in La. is mostly “Free Persons of Color”, “Other Free Person” and “Mulatto” for himself , his family and later his children and descendants. If you are interested, you may look up the census records, here is one example:
1810 St Landry Parish, La. later 1826 Atoscocita
ENUMERATED 7 Other “Free” people
279 ASH, Thomas 1753 NC other free person
Anna GOINS 1773 VA other free person
Kissiah 1789 MS other free person
Elizabeth 1794 MS other free person
Valentine 1796 MS other free person
Rebecca 1801 MS other free person
Michael 1804 MS other free person
The Nash Families said Thomas Nash presented here within the Cherokee Applications of 1896 “Thomas Nash was full blooded Cherokee Indian”. I will also like to clear the records as far as their denial of “Citizenship” within the 5 Civilized Tribes. The applications were “rejected” because the families refused to remove and settle in Indian Territorial Reservation in Oklahoma, and at that time forfeited and relinquished any rights to their citizenship (head-rights), at that time 1902 deadline. Documents presented on this website.
Furthermore, The haplo assignment of EP-1 and or EV-38 definition
Haplo Frequency in The U.S.
EP-1 is found in the U.S. with a rate of 17.66%, AA 62.1%, European Americans 0.9%, Hispanic Americans 5.8% (please also remember that Hispanic peoples are only Native Americans mixed with a Spaniard/white European a direct mixture from pre through Colonial eras, respectively), Native Americans 1.3%, Asian Americans 1.6%. These percentages can be found explained in detail here.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Haplogroup E-V38/ E3a/ E1b1a
Possible time of origin approx 25,000-30,000 years BP
Possible place of origin East Africa or North Africa
Descendants E-M2, E-M329
Defining mutations L222.1, V38, V100
In human genetics, Haplogroup E-V38 is a human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup. It is the phylogenetic term for the series of unique sequence variants on the human Y-chromosome. It is often found in African males and their descendants and is heritably passed in lineage from father to son. Geneticists study these variants in populations to find the evolutionary lineage to a common male human ancestor. It can also be referred to in phylogenetic nomenclature by names such as E1b1a (although the exact definition of phylogenetic names can vary over time).
E-V38 has two basal branches, E-M329 and E-M2, the former is almost exclusively found in Ethiopia. The E-M2 branches are the predominant lineage in Western Africa, Central Africa, Southern Africa, and the southern parts of Eastern Africa. E-M2 has several subclades, however many members are included in either E-L485 or E-U175.
My Opinions is based on years of DNA and genealogical research, specifically The People Known as Redbones.
I am NOT of the opinion that this family was African or Black slave element. Not in the least and would venture to guess that this line certainly could have been of Moorish, and or Portuguese ancestry and with strong ancestry within the Mediterranean Rim (Italy) and India, as always claimed by the families through our history. Arriving on these shores as quite mixed peoples who later intermarried heavily among the Native American Tribes of Indigenous ancestry. Moreover, “other” such diverse ethnic peoples of remnant Colonial Portuguese “assimilato” type mixtures repeatedly inter-marrying within the same familial lines, in essence preserving the bloodlines and frequency of admixture concentrations.
Male Sample Admixtures
Date-Time: Friday, February 23, 2007 at 15:42:34 (CST)
My Expected Results were (from prior knowledge): english, native american, irish, german, cherokee indian
My Actual DNA Tribes Analysis Results – Native Match Strong/Strongest and Respective MLIs were: metzitlan city, mexico 8.9 basque (basque county, spain) 6.4 pakistan 4.2 spain 4.1 portugal 3.7 toscana, italy 3.4 strathclyde, scottland 3.2 tamil (india) 3.1 northern portugal 2.9 veneto, italy 2.6 andalusia, spain 2.6 turkey 2.4 piemonte, italy 2.4 austria 2.4 kurdish (north iraq) 2.1 italy 2.1 lombardia, italy 1.9 marmara, turkey 1.9 bavaria, germany 1.9 italy 1.9
My Actual DNA Tribes Analysis Results – Global Match Strong/Strongest and Respective MLIs were: rio negro, argentina 15.4 hispanic 14.6 mexico 14.5 hispanic (U.S.A.) 14.1 costa rica 12.0 hispanic 10.1 el salvador 9.9 metztitlan city, mexico 8.9 bogota, columbia 8.1 caucasian (U.S.A.) 7.1 valley of mexico 6.8 mendoza, argentina 6.6 basque (basque country, spain) 6.4 santa fe, argentia 6.2 mestizo (ecuador) 6.2 chubut, argentina 5.9 central mexico 5.2 hispanic (U.S.A.) 5.1
My Actual DNA Tribes Analysis Results – World Region Match Strong/Strongest and Respective MLIs were: mestizo 6.29 central amerindian 4.73 northwest european 2.35 mediterranean 2.24 india 2.08 asia minor 1.97 north african 1.76 eastern european 0.89 japanese 0.53 northeast amerindian 0.49 arabian 0.48 finno-ugrian 0.36 mongolian 0.36 north india 0.17 india tribal 0.10 athabaskan 0.04 southeast asian 0.03 salish 0.03 chinese 0.03 malay archipelago 0.03 tibetan 0.02 polynesian 0.01 amazonian 0.01
DNATribes Version Number: DNA Tribes Personal Genetic Analysis
Date DNATribes Test/Analysis was Ordered: 02-13-07
Comments: autosomal STR Profile is. amel x y d3s1358 15 20 tho1 6 6 d21s11 31 32.2 d18s51 14 17 d5s818 11 11 d13s317 12 13 d7s820 10 11 d16s539 11 12 csf1po 12 12 vwa 14 15 d8s1179 10 13 tpox 8 11 fga 21 24
For the Female (MtDNA) admixtures
Additional information about Maternal Line:
PEE DEE INDIAN SOUTH CAROLINA, ASHE
1. 16223T Not Tested
Tested with: Genographic Project
Contact person: Shoshone Peguese Contact this user
Most distant known maternal ancestor on the direct female line
First Name: Kila
Last Name: Ashe
Year Born: About 1826
Year Died: Unknown
Additional information about Maternal Line:My family descends from several tribes that resided in the Anson county area on the border between North Carolina & South Carolina that lived along the Pee Dee river. These tribes were called Pee Dee and the other tribe the Keyauwee. This is the line my Maternal ancestors descend from. I also descend from the Chowanoc indians who lived further North in Gates county NC. Our people and their descendants are still living in the Carolinas well and strong. I am a tribal member of the MCDC Pee Dee Indian Tribe, McColl SC.
Again, please help spread the word and facts presented here. Let’s work together to set the record strait, for once and For ALL! If you have comments or questions, please visit our Like page on Facebook where I would be happy to address those and or follow up.